Curse

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 12:56 PM // 12:56

How come it has no Hex Removal whatsoever? You would think that a hero team setup such as Sabway would have some form of hex removal, especially in HM, considering the reputation it's got, but it doesn't. You can't even leave hex removal to your hench monks as they don't have remove hex or anything like that

Sabway - http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Sabway

Moral55 · Mar 23, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

The original 3 way necromancer build had a N/MO with two hex removals on one of the SS necros, most people still use that guy i think.

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moral55

The original 3 way necromancer build had a N/MO with two hex removals on one of the SS necros, most people still use that guy i think.

Edited the first post to include the proper link to the Sabway team lineup. This is the OFFICIAL sabway build that thousands of people use, and there's no hex removal at all to be seen

Shaz · Mar 23, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

A build is just there to guide you. Change it to how you see fit for certain place. You don't have to keep it exactly like that. Could easily fit some hex removal on the MM or the SS.

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaz

A build is just there to guide you. Change it to how you see fit for certain place. You don't have to keep it exactly like that. Could easily fit some hex removal on the MM or the SS.

I'm just wondering why Sab didn't include some hex removal in the first place. Surely there's some people out there that use it EXACTLY how it's shown on Pvxwiki & even on Pvxwiki as it is now without any hex removal it's been rated as "EXCELLENT" and has 5/5

Maybe Hex removal just isn't important in this team lineup or something as the N/RT healer can keep you alive even when hexed. I dunno.

Rainbow Ftw · Mar 23, 2008, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Edited the first post to include the proper link to the Sabway team lineup. This is the OFFICIAL sabway build that thousands of people use, and there's no hex removal at all to be seen

If you're going into an area with tons of hexes then you take it; all of it is suggested in the variants, also that's not official.. it's just a documentation of a meta build... That's all PvX is; it's just that some like yourself consider it to be gospel. This is of course no bad thing on your part, just saying that cos PvX says one thing doesn't mean it's right.

Tbh, just use your common sense; know ur gonna be up vs. a lot of hex using enemies? then take convert hexes on ur N/MO MM...

Shaz · Mar 23, 2008, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

I'm just wondering why Sab didn't include some hex removal in the first place. Surely there's some people out there that use it EXACTLY how it's shown on Pvxwiki & even on Pvxwiki as it is now without any hex removal it's been rated as "EXCELLENT" and has 5/5

Maybe Hex removal just isn't important in this team lineup or something as the N/RT healer can keep you alive even when hexed. I dunno.

Yes, there are bad players who will use it exactly like it's shown and complain how PvE is hard. One build will never be great for all areas. Like you stated on the title, it's for general PvE, so it will work for most areas. You will just have to use common sense and change the build to fix whatever it is you have problem against for certain area.

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow Ftw

If you're going into an area with tons of hexes then you take it; all of it is suggested in the variants, also that's not official.. it's just a documentation of a meta build... That's all PvX is; it's just that some like yourself consider it to be gospel. This is of course no bad thing on your part, just saying that cos PvX says one thing doesn't mean it's right.

Tbh, just use your common sense; know ur gonna be up vs. a lot of hex using enemies? then take convert hexes on ur N/MO MM...

I've always thought Pvx was an "official" GW website, my mistake, thanks for letting me know

Anyway, just wondering how people actually know they're gonna come up against a lot of hexes. Is it based on experience & memory of that area or do you think people actually research every single area they go to?

Also, is convert hexes a better choice than say Remove Hex?

Shaz · Mar 23, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Anyway, just wondering how people actually know they're gonna come up against a lot of hexes. Is it based on experience & memory of that area or do you think people actually research every single area they go to?

Experience, wiki, or fail so then you go back and change the build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Also, is convert hexes a better choice than say Remove Hex?

Depend, but Convert on the N is nice as they won't have any energy problem using it. But if hexes is going to be a problem, one copy of hex removal wont be enough. So you'll need multiple hex removal.

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

OK well thanks for that guys, it's a great help

Alex the Great · Mar 23, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

i always slap cure hex and dismis condition on the ss, and that works just fine

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Would it be worth taking out [skill]animate shambling horror[/skill] & replacing it with a Hex removal skill on my MM? I only ask because at present my MM only has 2 summoning spells (Bone minions & Shamblings) & if I was to take out animate shambling horrors he'd just be left with animate bone minions + jagged bones. Would this be sufficient enough to be a MM/Bomber?

Here's his build at the moment:

[skill]jagged bones[/skill][skill]animate bone minions[/skill][skill]animate shambling horror[/skill][skill]death nova[/skill][skill]blood of the master[/skill][skill]protective spirit[/skill][skill]aegis[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

I need to give one of my heroes a hex removal skill as I don't use Hero Monks & none of the monk henchies have any hex removal skills themselves. I figured the MM would be the best choice to give the hex removal skill to seeing as he already has 2 monk skills on his bar.

I'm just worried that by removing shambling horrors & only having the one summoning skill on his bar (animate bone minions) that he may not be an affective MM/Bomber anymore.

What do you guys think?

Pyro maniac · Mar 23, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Mainly because you don't need the hex removal
All hexes in PvE are mass spam of the same hex. Removing the conjure phatasm is silly if it gets re-applied almost instantly. It's better to heal through the degen.
Only hex that would make a difference is soothing images on your SY spammer. If such enemies are in the area, you might want to take remove hex instead.

RotteN · Mar 23, 2008, 02:12 PM // 14:12

bone minions is more than enough to bomb stuff.

Shaz · Mar 23, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by whufc89

Would it be worth taking out [skill]animate shambling horror[/skill] & replacing it with a Hex removal skill on my MM? I only ask because at present my MM only has 2 summoning spells (Bone minions & Shamblings) & if I was to take out animate shambling horrors he'd just be left with animate bone minions + jagged bones. Would this be sufficient enough to be a MM/Bomber?

Just Bone Minions is fine, I only use one on mine when I do use one.

Sab · Mar 23, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

What do you need hex removal for in PvE? Usually hexes are too spammy for non-elite removals, or they're junk degen hexes you can heal through. The Necros aren't really impaired by hexes anyway, as there are very few hexes in PvE that really pose a problem. And when you are in a hex-heavy area, heroes can't tell the difference between a priority hex and a rubbish hex and chances they'll waste the removal on something unimportant. That's basically why I don't include hex removal in the builds I post. If for some reason you need it (Wurm Bile etc.), then by all means slot in Inspired Hex, Remove Hex or something like that.

whufc89 · Mar 23, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

What do you need hex removal for in PvE? Usually hexes are too spammy for non-elite removals, or they're junk degen hexes you can heal through. The Necros aren't really impaired by hexes anyway, as there are very few hexes in PvE that really pose a problem. And when you are in a hex-heavy area, heroes can't tell the difference between a priority hex and a rubbish hex and chances they'll waste the removal on something unimportant. That's basically why I don't include hex removal in the builds I post. If for some reason you need it (Wurm Bile etc.), then by all means slot in Inspired Hex, Remove Hex or something like that.

Thank you for replying

You made a point about healing through degen hexes in PvE & that's what I thought to begin with. I figured you didn't include any hex removal skills because the threats posed by hexes in PvE isn't THAT great & your hench monk(s) + the N/RT can deal with it through spike heals anyway (See post 5

)

Thanks again.

EDIT: /thread I guess.

Axel Zinfandel · Mar 23, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

Mainly because you don't need the hex removal
All hexes in PvE are mass spam of the same hex. Removing the conjure phatasm is silly if it gets re-applied almost instantly. It's better to heal through the degen.
Only hex that would make a difference is soothing images on your SY spammer. If such enemies are in the area, you might want to take remove hex instead.

QFT

12characters

kel77 · Mar 23, 2008, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

What do you need hex removal for in PvE? Usually hexes are too spammy for non-elite removals, or they're junk degen hexes you can heal through. The Necros aren't really impaired by hexes anyway, as there are very few hexes in PvE that really pose a problem. And when you are in a hex-heavy area, heroes can't tell the difference between a priority hex and a rubbish hex and chances they'll waste the removal on something unimportant. That's basically why I don't include hex removal in the builds I post. If for some reason you need it (Wurm Bile etc.), then by all means slot in Inspired Hex, Remove Hex or something like that.

Bam!
I was gonna say the same crap but he saw the thread first...

batno_mercy · Mar 23, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quoting what i meant when i wrote the notes section.

"The flaws in this build are its susceptibility to interrupt and its lack of hex removal. Having hex removal, interrupt(s), and Pain Inverter is suggested for the other players/heroes. "

Who is going to bring those three heroes? You. The person who is behind them is the one who is responsible for the team's victory and that is the human that is bringing them. Let me give you two of the main reasons these heroes have no hex removal at all.

1) The human player shouldn't be blind and take one hex removal spell/signet/whatever just in case.
2) As this set is most often used in 8 man and 6 man areas, you will be well-off if you take a monk henchman and another one (warrior or caster). Fact: In every henchman set-up in every campaign there is one hex removal henchman. If you take a warrior, this means that you are a caster yourself and can afford to go /Mo or /Me for Shatter Hex or Reveal Hex or whatever.
If you take a caster, take a mesmer henchman as these almost always have hex removal too (or just take both monks, one of them has hex removal 100&).
3) The question is: What makes you cry about hex removal that much? Which hexes are able to make you cry? I'd say the most common ones are Diversion, Backfire and Lingering Curse (Spectral Agony aside, you should be infused). All of those can be survived by either careful aggroing or waiting till the hex is over.
4) The main reason is: AI targets lower-level foes. Guess who that is? Correct. Those 10 meatshields that are in the centre of the whole team build. You may argue that casters are priority targets, but the priority targets are actually those with less health and armor.

I hope you understand better now. There should be one point in your head replacing the need of thinking of anything else like hero synergies while running Triple Necros: "Think about where you go and foresee what you will need". Basta.

No Mercy